World Congress of Kennel Clubs - July 1995
Ladies and Gentlemen, as President of the Irish Red Setter Club I wish to welcome you to the Club’s Conference on the Divergence of Type. Some of you have travelled great distances to be here and that is a testimony to your love of Irish Red Setters. I thank you for making that effort and hope that at the end of the day you will consider that the trip was worthwhile. This Conference deals with a difficult topic, and one that has the potential to cause division between us, but it has also the potential to be a celebration of the Red Dog, as we all feel that they have enriched our lives sufficiently, to cause us to give up our time to be here. I hope that thought will set the tone for today, as I am sure all of us believe that we have the breed’s best interests at heart.The Club undertook to hold this Conference, because it felt that the topic was one that needed to be addressed, as around the World, the breed has many fanciers, they keep Irish setters because they like the look of them and because they appeal to them. This Club was established to promote the Irish Red Setter, to nurture it and to be its guardian. These are still the objectives of the Club and our revised constitution includes an aspiration laid down by the founders:
To urge the adoption and promotion of the correct style and type by breeders, judges, etc., as the standard of excellence by which Irish Red Setters shall be judged.
The Club has a proud history in the promotion and maintenance of Irish setters, its members in the 113 years of its existence have not deviated from the ideals of its founders.
I wish to clearly state from the outset that what I say from this point on should be taken as my own personal views, although I draw heavily on the views on many former Club members. I do this because I feel that it is unwise to limit the field of play to one person’s experience, as we need to look at the breed over the period of history, so that we can get an overview of the breed in order to understand its development.Irish Red Setters in Ireland have retained their function, as well as their beauty, because it has always been accepted that their beautiful form was shaped by function, shaped by the Irish landscape and its prevailing conditions. Shaped by the rigours of tireless galloping in search of widely scattered game. The breed has been described by one noted adherent as “racy of the soil”, a brief phrase, but one pregnant with meaning. The Irish setter may have become a ‘salon dog’ in some countries, but in its native land its feet are firmly planted in the soil and that soil, Ladies and Gentlemen, is ‘peat’; black, energy sapping peat; on which heather grows, heather that is the staple diet of a bird that shares the colour of the dog that was bred to hunt it. That bird is the Red Grouse.
The Red Dog is part of our Irish culture, our living heritage, the Very Rev. Dr Patrick Mulligan, former President of the IRSC, alas now deceased, wrote in our Centenary Newsletter: “The red setter is probably the most distinctive thing we have, apart from the shamrock. It is part of our heritage that we should respect and cherish; and it is we who should maintain standards for it on field and bench. That, I think, is what the Club is about. Go mairidh se go ceann cead eile bliain.”
The reason for this conference is clearly stated in Dr Mulligan’s words. We cherish our native dog and we wish to maintain standards on field and bench. I believe Dr Mulligan chose his words with care, when he consigned his thoughts to paper and exhorted us to maintain standards “on field and bench”; in that order. The present day strength of the Irish Red Setter Club allows us to undertake today’s task. Too long have we maintained standards in Ireland, to see them ignored in other countries. The time has come to establish our concern and to make every effort to rectify trends in other lands, that have exaggerated the Irish Red Setter to a caricature of his former glory. There are dogs that are called Irish setters that bear more resemblance to breeds such as Borzois, than to the original dog.
C W Ryan from Castlebar, a former member of the Club, who described lovingly how to train Irish Setters in “Setters, Irish, English and Gordon” written together with Mrs Ingle Belper owner of the famous Rheola Kennel,
“The true friends of the Irish Setter at the present day are those who, breeding judiciously, do not seek for an abundance of beauty points at the expense of the setter’s natural game finding capacities”.
Let us therefore look at the representations of the early Irish setters, the noted artist Sir Edwin Landseer etched this Irish Setter in 1819. The present day working Irish Red Setter bears the strongest resemblance to this dog. As he does to the following representations of the breed; this un named representative of the breed found in General Hutchinson’s work on Dog Breaking written in 1848, from “Stonehenge on the Dog” we have “Rover”, brother of the celebrated “Plunket” from around 1870, then we have Mr J Fletcher’s “Grouse” used to illustrate Hugh Daziel’s book on British Dogs who was shown in the late 1870s, then we come to Ch. Charleville Phil, born in 1895, who out of Col Millner’s derby winner in 1893 Airnie out of Isinglass derby winner in 1891. These are examples of 19th century Irish setters. I hope you all noted the freedom from exaggeration, the balance of the animals, the length of coat, neck and ear, the size and closeness of their feet. History shows that up to this point the Irish Red Setter that exhibited at shows, could win at trials and could be relied on to work for the gun with equal aplomb. There was one type, the true type, what we must look at from here on is why this has changed. What were the forces behind the change and in what form the changes has taken place?
FORCES OF CHANGE.
The Irish Red Setter was developed as a sporting dog by people who understood the difference that a high quality setter makes to a day in the countryside. The grand spectacle of a top class Irish setter flying over the ground, inspired those people who developed the breed. The understood that there was more to hunting than killing birds and those of us who still enjoy that sight, realise its worth. Somerville described the work of a setter as follows:
When autumn smiles, all beauteous in decay,
And paints each chequered grove with various hues,
My setter ranges in the new-shorn fields,
His nose in air erect; from ridge to ridge,
Panting, he bounds, his quartered ground divides
In equal intervals, nor careless leaves
One inch untried. At length the tainted gale
His nostrils wide inhale; quick joy elates
His beating heart, which, awed by discipline
Severe, he dares not own, but creeps,
Low cowering, step by step; at last attains
His proper distance; there he stops at once,
And points with his instinctive nose upon
The trembling prey. On wings of wind upbourne
The floating net, unfolded, flies, then drops,
And the poor fluttering captives rise in vain.
What beautiful words, written in sympathy and understanding! Note that this was not written in recent times, but when man used a net to catch game. Those who still enjoy the work of Irish setters realise the importance of function and the need to preserve the Irish setter as a top class working gundog. The quality Irish setter must aspire to being top class worker and beautiful, that is the penicle! The setter that attains the title of Dual Champion has the characteristics nurtured by hundreds of years of selective breeding. Let us look at the last Dual Champion under IKC Rules, Heathericks Gaiar, what a grand dog he looks, but could this dog become a Dual Champion today. Alas I doubt it!! Let us look at the following divisive topics, that characterise the divergence in Irish setters today.
SIZE.
There are few records of the height or weight of Irish Setters, however Hugh Dalziel gives some record in his book and the average height at the withers and weights given were:
Males 24” 55lbs
Females 22”, 46lbs.
The most interesting of the dogs listed was the single most influential sire in the history of the breed:
PALMERSTON (Old Shot x Lucey) Born 1862 23” 64lbs
Before leaving Ch Palmerston it is worth recording that in a letter from Percy La Touche’s to Col. Millner, reproduced in Millner book on the breed, L a Touche stated that he remembered pointing out Palmerston to his father at a show in Dublin, commenting that he thought that he resembled the type of their own dogs, but his father considered him to be too course and heavy. Palmerston represents 1/3 of all traceable blood in the pedigrees of the Irish red setters winning trials in Ireland.
Other records that I have located give Elcho’s height and weight as:
ELCHO (Charley x Nell) born in 1875 24” 56lbs
Elcho exerted a strong influence in Ireland, before he went to America where he went on to exert a great influence at stud.
CH. KILDARE (Ganymede x Hebe) 23 3/4”
Terry of Boyne exported to USA in 1923 for the record price of $2,600 described by Thompson in his book as “ not a big dog as he weighed only 59 lbs but he was well balanced, deep chested and beautifully coated.”
At the 1925 Annual General Meeting of the Irish Red Setter Club, there was a discussion on the breed standard, size was one of the subjects discussed and the following Statement is written in the Minutes of that meeting.
SIZE: Dogs should be at least 23” and not more than 26” in height, measured at the shoulder. Bitches slightly smaller.
I feel that it is wise to point out that the people present at the meeting included such notable setter enthusiasts as: Eugene Ferris, Col Millner, J A Carberry, D Moore, H S Waterhouse, J Phibbs, Valentine Grace and others.
In the early 1990s at the request of the FCI, the Irish Kennel Club contacted the Irish Red Setter Club to consider the setting of a height standard for the breed. After discussion a height of between 21” to 26” was agreed upon unanimously as being the range of height suitable for inclusion in the standard. Ladies and Gentlemen, the height of the Irish setter may be in doubt abroad, but in Ireland from the height of the measured dogs that have been influential in the breed and from discussions that have been recorded in the minutes of the Club, the range of height for our native dog is not in doubt. It is therefore of no surprise that the vast majority of working Irish setters in Ireland fit into this range and I will show you why!
The following brief discussion on the pedigree of the present day working dog is all that time allows. An examination of all the traceable lines in the pedigree of Ch Charleville Phil, who was born 189, shows that of the 32 dogs that appear in his fifth generation, 14 are traceable to Palmerston and one to his brother Bouncer, six lines are traceable to Cpt. Hutchinson’s Bob and four to the progeny of Charley and Nell, through Ch. Elcho and Quail; 2 lines trace to Ballingarry and his sister Belle X. Looking at the influential dogs of the 1930s and 1940s, the influence of Ch. Charleville Phil for example, is in them all, Garry of Burtown has 15 lines to him, 9 of these through his son, Young Phil; Uaine had him 138 times in her pedigree, 92 times through Young Phil; FTCH The Blacksmith had 151 traceable lines to Charleville Phil, 121 of them through Young Phil; Int.FTCH Tremont Dreamland, although it is only possible to trace half his pedigree had 75 lines to Charleville Phil, 53 of these through Young Phil. Taking a dog from the 1970s such as Int.FTCH Knockmore Red Mollie and looking at the influence of Charleville Phil through the dogs previously mentioned he appears 2,455 times and that is a very conservative estimate, as not all the lines were traced back the required 18 generations. Thus through Charleville Phil alone, Palmerston appears 34,370 times in Knockmore Red Molly’s pedigree, Bob 14,730 times and the progeny of Charley and Nell 9820 times. The immense influence of dogs like Palmerston and Elcho whose size we know, makes it highly unlikely that the height at the shoulder of the present day dog will vary greatly from theirs.
COAT AND COLOUR.
“Some of the Irish setters now seen at shows are not of the same type as those of forty years ago. Like other breeds the showman has left his mark. A good many years since there was a run on dark coloured ones, especially in England and Continent, where the dark coat and absence of white are still considered marks of excellence.” These are not my words but those of Col Millner, taken from his book which was published in 1924. I wonder what he would have to say today? This comment is all the more strange as Col Millner’s Frisco, born 1877, was the first dog to draw attention to the darker colouring yet he kept to the view all his life that the darker colour was incorrect.
For many a long year, the question of the correct colour has been a point at issue. The Showing fraternity favour a darker red colour than exhibited by the bulk of working dogs. Those with working dogs were more concerned with performance which has tended to be better in setters of lighter colour and indeed lighter frame.
The standard set down in 1882 by the Irish Red Setter Club, says that the colour should be a rich golden chestnut, which seems to agree with the better known writers of that time and earlier. Stonehenge in his book “British Rural Sports” written in 1855 states
“---it is asserted that the well bred Irish Setter must be a deep pure blood red, without the slightest approach to black or mahogany colour.”
Modern Dogs Volume 2, Sporting Division” by Rawdon Lee first published in 1893, had this to say:
“There is a another point worth observing, and that is the red dogs of the past, were not nearly so deep in colour, as many now before the Public on the benches.”, and again on colour he says, ”I next consulted with Mr John G. King of Ballyin, King’s County (now named County Offaly), who may be looked on as the father of the breed in this country. He has been a constant attendant and exhibitor at dog shows, not alone of setters, but of pointers and foxhounds. He is still as keen as possible, notwithstanding that he paid for his first game licence in 1837, and his experience is golden...”
Teesdale-Buckle, the kennel manager of Purcel Llywellin and handler of the famous Irish Setter “Plunkett”, while decrying some of the Irish Setters of his day, stated in his book ”The Complete Shot”(1893);
“----but neither had they the rich golden chestnut of the Irish Setter.” Although an English Setter man and no great lover of red dogs, he had very positive things to say for Plunket.
Moving into the 20th century, Col Millner, former secretary of the Irish Red Setter Club, whose dog Frisco has been blamed for starting the fancy for a darker red than the original colour, made reference to colour and that the pure Irish Setter should be blood red in colour, Millner through out his long involvement with the breed fro the 1870s to the 1920s always adhered to the fact that Irish setters were blood red and was highly critical of dogs of a darker hue. A fact that did not make him particularly popular in showing circles.
In “Setter, Irish, English and Gordon”(1935) by Ingle Belper and C W Ryan, a full chapter was given to the question of “Colour - and the Effect of Outcrosses”. Mrs Belper was famous for her Rheola Setters and her book gives a balanced picture of the breed at that time. In the above mentioned chapter she states:
“Leaving the question of cross-breeding and returning to colour, I hold that the ideal one for an Irish Setter is an even chestnut red, neither too light nor too dark, but just the tint of a newly shelled horse-chestnut,---“
When discussing the darker colour coated dogs, she had this to say: “Could the history of those ultra dark-coloured Irish Setters be traced sufficiently far back, it would be found that an outcross had been used with either a Gordon, a black retriever, or some other black breed.”
Mrs Belper’s description of Ch Strabane Sally is worth quoting: “I think she was as faultless a Setter as I have seen. She was of medium size, perfectly proportioned, with no one point exaggerated, and of the bright chestnut colour that is so much more attractive than the ultra dark colour.”
One of the first times that I met the late Jack Nash, he showed me four young setters that he was trialing at that time, three were golden red one dark red with a big white blaze of white down her chest. He asked me which one I liked best and I said the dark one, which was FTCH Clashawley Gail. Two of the others were Int.FTCH Moanruad Stardust and FTCH Moanruad Rum. When asked why I preferred Gail, I said that I thought that she was the best colour. He disagreed and said in his lifetime the best working setters were all of the lighter hue and that was the correct colour for the breed. On reading Marr’s book “Pointers and Setters” (1963) I found in the section on Irish Setters, written by John Nash:
“Though one does see some very good dark red dogs, most of the workers are of a lighter hue than is fashionable on the bench.” His experience extended from the late 40’s to his untimely death in 1990.
So where did the darker colour come from? Originally, it seems to be as a result of crosses with other breeds. Darker coated Irish Setters are still larger and heavier boned than those of correct colour. It can be seen that through history noted observers and enthusiasts, all agree that the correct colour is a rich golden chestnut or blood colour. The working dog by and large is still of the original and correct colour.
The appearence of white within the parameters laid down in the breed standard is still widely visible in the working dog, but less so in show dogs and on this point I would like to make only one comment; I believe that an examination of the dogs that have become FTCHs in the history of the Irish Kennel Club would be very interesting, as in my experience, many of the top class workers have white to a lesser or greater extent on them.
On the question of coat and in particular feathering, many show dogs have a profusion of it, few working dogs do, as the burden of hair would result in overheating and entaglements. If we are to accept that the Irish Red Setter is primarily a gundog then an over abundance of hair must be considered a fault.
TEMPERAMENT
The difference in temperament between working and show Irish Setters is great. The working dogs must be fiery, full of energy, high spirited in order to have the necessary qualities that permit the breed to be the fast, wide running, game finding animals that exemplify the better examples of the breed. These qualities are not required in the shown ring, where placid temperament appears to be more the accepted norm.
CONFORMATION.
The importance of conformation cannot be overstated when selecting setters. I am not going to talk too much about it as other speakerstoday are dealing with the matter in detail, however I would like to add the following points.
Due of their function, Irish Red Setters, must have the ability to keep running day in day out, when used for hunting or trialling. The question of ‘heart’ confuses the issue slightly as the dog with great hunting passion will keep hunting regardless of conformation, but the dog with heart and conformation has the extra facility of ease. This is the reason why “STYLE” is of such great importance in the assessment of dogs at work and why it must be considered by serious breeders. Style, in its essence, is harmonious movement of a dog with good conformation and instinct.
The conformation of the Irish Red Setter is clearly described in the standard, but that does not prevent differences in interpretation. Conformation can only be clearly understood in the context of work, i.e. galloping. Irish Setters are fast long distance gallopers and therefore have to be built accordingly. If we think about it, there are simple rules that will apply because of this.
The weight to size ratio cannot be too great as the excess weight would be too tiring. Consider a dog 25 inches high at the withers and 50 lb. weight. The weight to height ratio is 50/25 = 2. Consider the same sized dog weighing 100 lbs. His weight to height ratio is 4 and therefore either grossly over weight or of a heavy build with too much ‘lumber’ to be a galloping dog.
The Irish Setter in silhouette gives the impression of being square, in that the height to the withers and the length from the breast-bone to the tip of the pelvis is almost equal. This results in the rather high gallop of the Irish Setter, distinguished from that of the Pointer, (another galloper of square shape, whose real power comes from the hindquarters), by the harmonious use of front and back legs.
Conformation may be examined when a dog stands alert, here it is possible to examine the angles and bone structure of the animal, but the true test of conformation is the fluid movement of a galloping dog. Here it is possible to see the defects that result in the instability of the galloping movement and that result in a lack of pace and stamina.
COMMENT.
It is fair to say that without the sustained effort of the Irish people that the working Irish setter would have disappeared from the earth long since. The efforts of generations of sporting Irish people must not be ignored and the great tradition, described by John Nash as the cult of the Red Dog, is part of our living heritage. It is worthy of our support, as it is indeed part of us, part of our history, something to be proud of, and, without doubt, something to be cherished and passed on to future generations
Ladies and Gentlemen in a world of change, there are some things that should not be allowed to change, things that have stirred the hearts of generations of sporting men and women, the sight of a red dog flowing over the wild open landscape, free of effort, intense in its search of game, in the companionship of its owner. The owner should recognise that they have generations of breeders to thank for that glorious dashing sight. I for one, am aware of that debt and it is my sincerest ambition, that when my time is finished and I will no longer be able to follow that fleeting form, that there will still be in existence Irish setters that will gladden the hearts of future generations so that they too might glory in that grand spectacle.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you for your attention.
